I think I may have set a record for how long one can be active at the forefront of the ancestral health community without being interviewed by Jimmy Moore. Well, that record might still stand…but at least it’s beatable now!
The podcast is available in a bunch of different formats, from iTunes to MP3 download—so instead of trying to link them all directly , I’ll just point you to Jimmy’s website:
The LLVLC Show (Episode 745): J. Stanton From GNOLLS.ORG On Metabolic Flexibility, Hunger, Calories
This show covers three of my major research subjects: metabolic flexibility (the subject of my 2013 AHS presentation), hunger (my 2012 presentation), and calories. We had fun, and a few good one-liners sneaked in: my favorite is probably “Yes, calories count—but they don’t all count the same.” The interview clocks in under 39 minutes.
Live in freedom, live in beauty.
JS
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Denounce Jimmy Moore – then we'll talk.
[…] / Posted on: January 01, 1970GNOLLS.ORG – I think I may have set a record for how long one can be active at the forefront of the […]
Awesome, J! I’ll be listening shortly! And we need to have you back on our show eventually, too. We’ll be sure Sarah can make it this time. 🙂
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LOL. I thought your last name had to be “Duke” to get with the Jimmer… But in all seriousness – the guy truly is the Grand Wizard of Low Carb. SCORE. 🙂
Great! I love listening to the variety of viewpoints on Jimmy’s shows. As for the haters, I suppose they are just so perfect that they can comfortably judge others for being human. I don’t expect Jimmy to be perfect. He’s got his strengths and weaknesses like we all do. If you don’t like him, no one is forcing you to listen to his shows or buy his books.
Melissa/Evelyn:
Apparently I've built enough bridges in the community that I now have my own resident troll under one of them!
Jason:
Absolutely! I'm looking forward to it…but let's wait a while, as I don't like to do podcasts too often.
Dave:
If we took everyone out of the ancestral health community who has ever been on Jimmy Moore's show, we'd be left with…um…I'm sure I'll think of someone.
JS
Just wanted to tell you that I had tried several times to keto-adapt without exercising and could not make it work. The last time I gave up after 8 weeks of extremely low energy levels. Then I decided to start an aerobic exercise routine before going keto again, and that did the trick. I barely had any low-carb flu at all and my energy levels are quite good. Many in the Paleo community tend to suggest that weight-lifting or sprint efforts are the only things worth doing, but people should know that aerobic exercise can really tip the balance for people having difficulty with keto-adaptation!
Could you elaborate on the difference between “keto-adaptation flu” and “low-carb flu”?
I experienced what I believe was low-carb flu when I went from eating massive amounts of carbs on a vegetarian diet to probably around 20-25% carbs on a paleo diet. It took a week to kick in, but then I was mentally shot and had very little energy for about a week to a week and a half. Then I was fine and have been fine ever since. Since I’m naturally lean and very active, I haven’t ever felt the need to go VLC for anything more than a day or two, so I’m not sure how the keto-adaption would be different.
Mary:
I went into this subject in detail during this year's AHS 2013 presentation. Exercise improves the basal rate of fat oxidation, which is half of metabolic flexibility…and probably the most important half, as fat loss is much easier once you improve basal fat oxidation! That's why I mentioned it on the podcast.
And yes, it makes sense that cardio helps, since medium-intensity cardio maxes out one's potential for fat oxidation. (“Train in the energy system you're trying to improve.”) What we don't know is how much HIIT/intervals/sprints affect it, since I don't know of any controlled trials.
Thank you for relating your experience! As I said, it certainly makes sense that exercise would make it easier to adapt to lower carb intakes…but I want to get some empirical data before recommending it.
Beowulf:
“Low-carb flu” is what happens when you try to adapt to a carbohydrate intake lower than your basal rate of fat oxidation…it takes a while for the fat oxidation pathways to adapt and upgrade themselves. (This is seen in multiple experiments that measure metabolic flexibility: see the sources in my AHS 2013 bibliography.) Meanwhile, you feel tired because your body is still demanding glucose that you're not ingesting.
This has nothing to do with ketosis.
Keto-adaptation is what has to happen when your carbohydrate intake is close to zero for an extended period of time. Some of your body's tissues (most notably, brain and red blood cells) cannot run on fat: the brain because fats don't pass the blood-brain barrier, the RBCs because they don't have mitochondria. So your body makes glucose out of protein in order to make up some of the difference…
…but since you're getting lots of energy from fat (either dietary fat or your own), there are a lot of ketone bodies left over when the fat is oxidized. (“Ketosis” is when there are enough ketones floating around in your bloodstream to measure them.) Your brain and heart can slowly adapt to using ketones for energy (they're converted back to acetyl-CoA and then oxidized in the TCA cycle), dramatically reducing (but not eliminating) their requirement for glucose…
…but this apparently takes several weeks. Meanwhile, many people find they are low on energy during that transition, because (like the low-carb flu) your body is still demanding glucose that you're not ingesting.
So: the difference is that “low-carb flu” is most of your cells adapting to use fat instead of glucose. Keto flu is that plus your brain adapting to use ketones instead of glucose.
JS
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Even your bestie, Richard Nikoley, has thoroughly had it with Jimbo and his cynical co-opting of Paleo. Remember one of the last things Dr. Kurt Harris said before taking leave of the scene? Yeah. IGNORE JIMMY MOORE. But I guess it's all about the Benjamins, innit?
Hmm… I thought Dr. Harris left the scene after embarrassingly supporting food reward when he probably could have written JS’s series on hunger. While Dr. Harris had some cogent ideas on nutrition, I’m not sure his body of work in this context necessarily outweighs the efforts of Jimmy Moore.
For better or for worse, the major players in the ancestral health arena are doing interviews with Jimmy Moore. As a conduit for this information, ignorning Jimmy Moore would be akin to cutting off one’s own nose to spite one’s own face. Effectively, Evelyn is explicitly suggesting ignoring people like JS, and perhaps implicitly begging for undeserved attention. Seems rather crass to do so on JS’s own blog.
Perhaps Evelyn can share her metabolic flexibility experiences. Or, at the very least explain how Jimmy Moore is adversely affecting your metabolic flexibility. Perhaps is stress anxiety?
Melissa/Evelyn:
Lest we forget, Paleo spent several years hitching a ride on low-carb's coattails — because the low-carb community was both well-established and much larger. Also, old-school Cordain paleo was necessarily low-carb: the only starch permitted was sweet potatoes, and even those were viewed with suspicion. The first big Paleo revolution was over saturated fat — not carbs — primarily via (if I recall correctly) Mark Sisson and Kurt Harris.
Remember when Kurt Harris described himself as “John the Baptist to Gary Taubes' Jesus”?
Now, low-carb is returning the favor by hitching a ride on Paleo. That's what happens when a movement is successful! (And it's not purely cynical: quite a few low-carbers are now eating gluten-free or Paleo versions of a low-carb diet.)
js290:
Imagine if I got interviewed in a major magazine or newspaper: everyone would be all “Way to go, J!” But any major magazine or newspaper will feature hundreds of advertisements for useless junk, many of them misleading or outright scams (e.g. J*hn Ellis magic water, Swedish herbal Viagra, “Make $2000 a month working from home”).
That is the trade-off for media exposure…you are being used to sell advertising space. And that is true whether you're on Jimmy Moore or in Scientific American. So each of us must ask ourselves whether the benefit of our message reaching new eyes and ears is worth that compromise.
JS
It’s hard to know if the posters are fakes or not in this bizarre little blog scene.
But one thing is clear: You’re a wonderful source of useful information and explanation, J.Stanton.
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That's all well and good if such an implicit bargain is understood (e.g., appearing on Creationist tools like Jimmy Moore's podcasts). The problem is, plenty of individuals in your position fail to make their true feelings known – and appearance becomes tacit endorsement. Take it from me: JM is as far as one can get from his “Aw, shucks” good-ole-boy persona. He's nasty, cynical, and will do ANYTHING to avoid having to earn an honest living. Kudos to Richard, at least, for having the guts to call him out on his nonsense.
[This is another message from a sockpuppet of the person who has posted as EatLessMoveMoore, Melissa, Evelyn, rich, Carole, Charles, CarbSanity, and CarbSeine -JS]
And Dr. Kurt Harris, by the way, is perhaps the finest pure intellect LC/Paleo ever produced. It is to ALL our everlasting shame that he has taken his leave.
That’s the real Evelyn. I know because I feel defiled just by having read her.
I don’t know why so many feel the need to attack Jimmy Moore. All this purist nonsense is very tiresome. I don’t agree with everything he personally espouses but he doesn’t discriminate and has given exposure to a lot of great people who have a lot to add to the ancestral inspired health approach discussion.
Personally, I find his and similar podcasts provide not only entertainment value but also act as sort of support group for those of us who have no choice but restrict our diets to an ancestral diet as those that just want to live a healthier lifestyle. I am straight up allergic (determined by an MD and severe reactions) to so many foods, I have to eat a autoimmune paleo diet with additional restrictions and I can’t tell you how much shows like Jimmy’s help me cope with having to eat in a way that made me feel like a freak for so many years.
Some joke about becoming OCD about diet but in my case it is no joke. Its a very real medical condition I struggle with every day and to say it has made my life miserable and horribly isolated would be an understatement. I was diagnosed twenty years ago, long before “gluten-free” and paleo became popular and “trendy” and there were times I didn’t think I would survive it due to the severe depression I suffered and having a kind and supportive voice has tremendous value.
I really enjoyed your interview J and look forward to getting your book when I am able. Is there any chance it will be released on iBooks or as an audiobook sometime in the future? My vision is very poor and I rely on digital books (so I can use a large font) or audiobooks most of the time.
Anyways, love the blog, J. Cheers and best wishes.
Evelyn:
I'm not here to spread rumors or air out dirty laundry.
Also, I'm quite sure that no one but Kurt Harris can stop Kurt Harris from writing articles.
John:
“But one thing is clear: You're a wonderful source of useful information and explanation, J.Stanton.”
Thank you for the vote of support!
It's easy to get a lot of hits in the short-term: just rile people up with controversial or inflammatory statements. As a bonus, it's much easier than sitting down and doing the calm, patient research necessary to advance the state of knowledge.
However, I've done my best to keep gnolls.org out of that tar pit, because it doesn't benefit anyone but Google Adsense — and it misleads a bunch of people into thinking that eating like a predator is much more complicated than it needs to be.
Cam:
I only came to this way of life a few years ago, and I still find myself 1. having to explain why I don't eat bread, and 2. dealing with people who think they're experts because they saw the Christina Warinner video. I can only imagine the difficulties 20 years ago!
Audiobooks are difficult and expensive to do well…and voicing a 7.5-foot-tall humanoid hyena-woman will be an interesting challenge. However, I would love an audiobook of The Gnoll Credo, and I hope to make one happen someday.
There is likely to be an electronic version someday, but I have no timetable on it. Meanwhile, contact me through the Contact page and I'll see if I can do something for you.
JS
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It's cool that Jimmy's helped you but, believe me: Jimmy only helped you because it also helped Jimmy. The guy's an aggressive marketer (Paleo water, anyone?) who will hijack ANY cause to make a buck.
[This is another message from a sockpuppet of the person who has posted as EatLessMoveMoore, Melissa, Evelyn, rich, Carole, Charles, CarbSanity, and CarbSeine -JS]
If all the people Jimmy's summarily banned from his forums and whose comments he's censored got together they'd be larger in size than five of his webpires. His franchise (and that's exactly what it is) maintains the appearance of order and importance because he's engineered it that way – dissent is promptly quashed and past inconsistencies/embarrassments scrubbed. Oh, and outright lying about stuff doesn't hurt, either.
Other than that I'm sure he's a swell guy. 😉
[This is another message from a sockpuppet of the person who has posted as EatLessMoveMoore, Melissa, Evelyn, rich, Carole, Charles, CarbSanity, and CarbSeine -JS]
Kurt's gone because he had Jimmy's number and no one would listen to him (follow the $, ya'll). Richard Nikoley, who I consider an otherwise loathsome individual, is to be commended for calling Jimbo out – even if not by name. And to all you paleo peeps – face it, the guy killed your movement. To allow a born-again creationist to play kingmaker and appear on your panels and at your events…would be, like, totally hilarious if it weren't so sad.
Melissa/Evelyn/rich/Carole/Charles/EatLessMoveMoore/CarbSanity/CarbSeine:
You're welcome to comment, but you are not welcome to spam me with sockpuppets.
Choose one name and comment under that — or you will become the first person at gnolls.org to have their posts moderated. I've gone for years without having to moderate anyone: please don't be so rude as to become the first.
(A note for my readers: all the above names are used by the same person, who is pretending that they're multiple people. The technical term is “sockpuppet”.)
JS
J., “Carole” is “Charles” and this individual also slams Jimmy under the names “Christopher”, “EatLessMoveMoore”, and many others.
I guess his weirdo hobby is to create the illusion that there’s an army of people who are up in arms about Moore, when it’s really just him, Evelyn & Melissa.
Whoops, sorry, when I reloaded the cache I saw that you’d caught that they were the same person.
John:
I'm all over it.
JS
Does any of this change the fact that JM is a total tool who’s making a joke out of LC/Paleo? Seriously?
Thanks for the response on keto-adaptation vs. low carb flu.
After getting through my low-carb flu, I haven’t had any issue with bouncing around carb levels periodically. In other words, I don’t have to go through low-carb flu again if I eat higher carb while on vacation for a week or around Christmas when I indulge in some treats for a week or two. Is there a general time-limit to how long you can venture into higher carb eating again without losing the adaptation?
With regards to ketosis, if you force your body to keto-adapt over the course of a month or two, does it retain that adaptation even when you start eating more carbs again? If so, for how long?
I guess I’m just wondering how flexible one can make one’s metabolism.
Charles –
OMGAWD. You do this all over the internets? All this time I thought you were my special troll and we had something meaningful.
Turn around, open the door to your house, look on the countertop. You left your 10mg of zyprexa there again.
Helpfully yours,
Wooo
Lol
And meanwhile, JM continues to run amok – and everyone outside of the ‘Paleosphere’ laughs at us (including you, Wooo, who is allowing this individual to co-opt otherwise useful things like ketogenic diets. He is, after all, writing a book called, ‘Keto Clarity’. Sure sounds like he’s Mr. Low Carb to me….).
Evelyn: “…Dr. Kurt Harris…”
Wait, his opinions are important because…? As far as I know he never had any weight or health problems of his own (besides his attitude/ego issues but that’s his mind not his body) and he never was in a professional position where he had to help people who had weight or health problems. He may have a Dr. before his name and he can post whatever he wants I don’t care but I doubt he actually helped someone get leaner and healthier. I don’t understand why he’s considered a reference we ought to consult or something.
By the way I’m so glad I’m reading 1/10 of the blogs I used to read nowadays: it gives me more free time to do useful things and it spares me this whole useless health blogs scene attention whores/ego masturbation drama. Is it really that complicated to publish non-emotional neutral criticism and not use the opportunity to do self-promotion or push for an agenda?
When I read articles I want to read something informative and useful and that’s why I keep coming back here. Thank you for writing about stuff that matters.
@”rich” All these strident assertions, personal attacks and emotional ranting aren’t accomplishing anything beyond making you feel good about yourself. You cannot annoy people into agreeing with you.
@J.Stanton Thanks, I’ll do that.
I think it’s unlikely that this individual likes himself.
It’s not a behavior likely to lead to self-esteem.
Beowulf:
Your experience is typical: if you've regained your metabolic flexibility, it's possible to eat a wide variety of diets without penalty.
I don't know how much dietary abuse it takes to lose met flex…I suspect it's a function of (epi)genetic susceptibility and how broken you were before.
As far as keto-adaption, I have little experience with it, so I can't offer any useful input.
Michael:
“Is it really that complicated to publish non-emotional neutral criticism and not use the opportunity to do self-promotion or push for an agenda?”
I'm glad you appreciate what I do! No, it's not complicated — but it doesn't make money nearly as efficiently as provocation marketing and straight-up hucksterism. My attempts to remain neutral and objective cost me a lot of money — money that sales of The Gnoll Credo don't nearly make up for.
Cam:
“You cannot annoy people into agreeing with you.” Ha!
JS