![sp_Feed](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_Feed.png)
![sp_TopicIcon](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_TopicIcon.png)
![sp_BlogLink](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-plugins/blog-linking/resources/images/sp_BlogLink.png)
3:03 pm
thanks.
since i think i'm gluten intolerant (not celiac, but i have not been tested), it seems one has to be very watchful about the hidden stuff.
>_<
3:55 pm
Thanks for link Paul but I'm in Canada.
I found this brand which seems ideal for gut health. http://www.iherb.com/Well-Wisdom-ImmunoPro-Rx-Non-Denatured-Whey-Protein-10-6-oz-300-g/4797
7:57 pm
September 24, 2011
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
JS: L-glutamine is a "gut healer". Just ask Dr. BG.
Anytime Ive had anything with Splenda in it I have terrible cravings for sweets afterwards. Like worse than if I just had something sweetened with sugar to begin with.
The pervasiveness of gluten never ceases to amaze me. It's in everything. Which is why I don't go to grocery stores anymore. I buy all my animal products from US Wellness, except eggs which I get with my veggies from a farmers market. Anything else is a condiment and the longer I'm paleo the less I even need that mess.
2:19 am
this also explains why my recovery drink had "warning: contains gluten" on the label.
but my whey does not.
4:22 am
JS,
Thanks for this. Just wanted to say I'm probably your biggest fan here in Ethiopia. Just this past weekend I went for a hike in the hills above Addis Ababa and heard the hyenas whooping it up and it brought to mind visions of the Gnolls.
Best,
E
11:36 am
Okay, so I'm a little familiar with the taste of oven cleaner, but what does powdered Ebola virus taste like? Y'know, just in case I come across it. 😉
A couple of years ago, my (now ex-)husband and I started the "6 Week Cure" diet which required imbibing a lot of whey protein. I had never had a problem with whey protein before, but we had bought a different, recommended-by-somebody-trustworthy name brand for the diet, and whatever was in it seriously messed up my gut (it never caused a problem for him, though). I had to quit after 4 days, but whatever damage was done persisted for weeks afterward. I found out a month later that I was gluten-intolerant. This post is probably the best explanation I'll ever have of why that whey protein caused me so much trouble. Thank you for doing the research and sharing - much appreciated!
5:04 pm
Thank you very much for this post, JS!
Wow, they are on a mission to get wheat into everything.
I have been using WPI for 10 years, I love it. Always been aware of the artificial flavors issue, been using Jay Robb Whey exclusively for a few years now. No sucralose, no aspartame, no rBGH, etc. It's even from pastured, grass-fed cows.
Another supp company whose website I read/post on has recently come out w/ a new glutamine peptide product, I'll have to ask about this.
1:20 am
February 22, 2010
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
Paul:
We can take that principle even farther.
Real food doesn't have ingredients: real food is an ingredient.
Meat. Ingredients: meat.
Blueberries. Ingredients: blueberries.
Egg. Ingredients: egg. May contain traces of egg.
And so on.
Howard:
In this particular case, I believe it's because hydrolyzed wheat protein is a lot cheaper than whey protein! But the appetite-stimulating effects of gluten exorphins are indeed intriguing.
Marilyn:
On a similar note, I've seen "Fat-Free Half and Half" on store shelves. I'm almost afraid to look at the ingredient label.
Note that the whoop is how spotted hyenas (and gnolls) communicate over long distances. There are inflections which communicate meaning, but it's mainly an attention-getter on the order of "I'm over here," "Pack, I have something to say," or "You'd better leave our territory, whoever you are." So any important discovery, good or bad, would probably start with a whoop -- followed by a conversation made of all sorts of ominous noises.
Spotted hyenas are very vocal, but it takes practice to understand them...their vocalizations aren't the same as those of dogs or cats. Their facial expressions and body language, however, are remarkably transparent to an attentive human.
Kassandra:
The better brands take such issues seriously, and will usually say "Gluten-free" or "Contains no gluten" on the packaging.
More soon!
JS
1:53 am
February 22, 2010
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
Elihu:
While I don't have access to fulltext, that particular paper looks very much like an industry-commissioned smear job.
To add to eddie watts' example above, the two "independent consultants" look very much like paid hatchet-men. David Brusick, for example:
Former Vice President of Gobal Toxicology for Covance Labs., Associate Editor of Food and Chemical Toxicology Consultant to most major pharmaceutical and chemical companies.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-brusick/13/681/363
Joseph Borzelleca works for the "Roundtable of Toxicology Consultants", which, according to their web page, "Collectively, we represent clients in the pharmaceutical (drug), chemical, foods, consumer product and medical device industries. Also, many of the RTC members provide litigation assistance to attorneys as expert witnesses or consultants."
http://www.toxconsultants.com/about_rtc.shtml
And these are just the two I looked up.
More importantly, I looked to see if the paper has been cited by anyone. Since being published in 2009, it's only been cited once, by this study:
Which seems to show that based on the biochemistry and in vitro experiments, sucralose could very well bind and inactivate vitamin B12 in vivo!
Finally, my N=1 is that whenever I consume heavily sucralose-sweetened whey protein, I produce terrible, room-clearing gas. Unsweetened whey protein doesn't have this effect.
Conclusion: I'm open to further evidence — but my current bias is towards the conclusions of the original paper.
eddie:
Good catch. I looked up a couple more, with the results above.
Bill:
To my knowledge, no dipeptide could possibly pose a problem. Proteins are typically absorbed as small di- and tri-peptides AFAIK: it's the longer peptides that pose a problem if they sneak through.
Ivor:
In a perfect world, none of us would ever have the urge to cheat, hunger would be completely ignorable, canned tuna wouldn't be contaminated with methylmercury, and McDonalds would serve local grass-finished beef topped with fresh salsa and avocado in a lettuce wrap. Also, I would never forget to defrost meat before I get hungry.
Yes, I IF (intermittent fast) frequently — but after I''m done with a hard workout, I don't really feel like fasting any longer! Whey protein is very rapidly absorbed, and is an excellent post-workout protein source. And it's easy to find whey protein uncontaminated by gluten.
Mainly, though, I'm trying to bring helpful information to the millions of people who consume whey protein — and would rather not be consuming gluten unawares.
Alex:
I''ve had good experiences with NOW unflavored whey isolate. Their products are generally reputable AFAIK, and it actually states "Contains No Gluten" on the label. Plus it''s nice and fluffy and tastes like it''s supposed to. (10 pound bag, 5 pound can)
More soon!
JS
2:25 am
February 22, 2010
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
pam:
Thank you! I''m glad I''ve been able to turn my wasted money into useful information for my readers.
Alex:
That one's probably fine. I'm a bit skeptical about the health claims, though...I'm not sure cow proteins do our own guts any good. Mainly whey is good because our enzymes break the proteins down very quickly, letting us absorb the protein quickly. (If that's indeed what we want.)
Daniel:
I know our intestines suck up most of the L-glutamine we ingest…I''ll have to ask her about what it actually does for gut health.
Yes, gluten is pervasive, as are corn and soy. They''re pervasive because they're cheap, and they''re cheap because our government pays Big Ag billions of dollars every year to overproduce them.
eddie:
Most likely. The more ingredients, the easier it is to hide cheap fillers like hydrolyzed wheat protein.
EDouble:
Ethiopia? Wow! Going to Harar to hang out with the city''s hyenas is on my bucket list.
Can I ask what you''re doing in AA, and how you came across The Gnoll Credo?
Angel:
It''s possible that you had a reaction to the whey itself…but it''s more likely that you found one that had been "fortified" with "glutamine peptides".
As I said in the article, that''s one reason I always buy unflavored…because I can tell by the taste if it''s been adulterated. And unflavored whey, while it''s not delicious, isn''t a bad taste at all…at least it shouldn''t be.
I''m glad I could help solve the mystery, and I hope this helps you if you ever decide to buy some more in the future.
Jeffrey:
I''ve heard that Jay Robb is good stuff: thanks for the confirmation. And do let us know what you find out.
On the cheap end of things, I can personally vouch for NOW unflavored whey isolate: though it''s not pastured or organic, it's definitely gluten-free, cold-filtered, etc. I linked to it one comment up.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments and suggestions! Please forward this article on to other, non-paleo sources — as there are a lot of people with wheat allergies, intolerances, or frank celiac, and most people who consume whey protein are at least trying to work out and be healthy.
JS
8:10 am
JS, this post makes my head swim. I have a longstanding habit of checking labels and have often wondered what "hydrolyzed wheat protein" and "hydrolyzed soy protein" were. Are they "manufactured" in the same way? Because they referred to protein, I assumed they were a reasonable addition to a product.
How is it that we can digest protein ourselves in a few hours if it takes a day in a vat of acid to obtain the hydrolyzed end product? As well, I am not clear on the MSG connection and would appreciate your addressing it in greater depth.
Thanks, as always, for the clarity and courtesy of your responses.
4:23 pm
False alarm; the supps I was thinking of are BCAA peptides, not glutamine.
Before I discovered Jay Robb, I was using ON (Optimum Nutrition) Natural Whey (no artificial sweeteners) for a while. Just checked the label on their website, seems decent. It was ok, as I recall.
As far as whey shakes not being paleo: neither is the computer I'm using to access the interwbez right now (how did our h-g ancestors get on the interwebz w/o computers?). It's impossible to fully replicate that experience, nor should we even want to; it's about identifying what our needs are, so we can use what we have now to meet them.
Your protein needs go way up post-workout, much higher than normal. Not getting a big shot of pro then is missing a window of opportunity.
10:32 am
Thanks for this info.. Glad I ditched ON Whey a while back. It was giving me acne and made me feel not so good mentally (which gluten also does to me).. And it did have the "glutamine precursors" and artifical sweeteners. I wasn't sure what the offending ingredient was, but I take BCAAs now pre/post workout now.
12:17 am
There is a good deal of information on whey protein and criteria for picking a good brand at http://www.mercola.com (do a search on whey protein). Mercola also sells a high end whey protein which is derived from milk from organic, grass-fed, cattle with milk being unpasturized and non-homogenized. It most likely is the best available though I am sure there are a few other equivalent brands. Microfiltered and cold filtered are required to preserve the beneficial BCAA's (branched chain amino acid of which lysine is the most beneficial one in stimulating the body's HGH production and glutathione production after a work out. Must be consumed within 1 hr after a high internsity workout or there is no effect. Ori Hofmekler's book "The Warrior Diet" goes into detail on how it stimulates HGH production and triggers the mTOR gene to build muscle.
12:56 pm
Otherworld, having had a couple of MSG reactions, I have long been on the lookout for MSG (monosodium glutamate) and all its aliases. The aliases are numerous and can be as innocuous sounding as "flavoring" or "spices."
12:00 am
February 22, 2010
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
Kenneth:
The BCAA content doesn't depend on the processing method: even hydrolyzed whey will contain the same proportion of amino acids (unless it's been otherwise adulterated).
There may be other benefits to certain proteins that tend to appear (or appear in greater quantities) in cold-filtered whey, but they don't markedly change the amino acid composition. So while I agree that it's best to consume sustainably raised ingredients, I'm very skeptical of the health benefits claimed.
Marilyn:
I very much doubt that free glutamic acid, by itself, is the source of MSG issues. You can't eat a paleo diet (or any diet) without encountering some amount of free glutamate — that's why they're called "amino acids".
For example, parmesan cheese contains a huge load of free glutamate. So does Roquefort…yet I don't see anyone complaining of headaches when they eat Roquefort. Other sources include green tea, grape juice, cured ham, and peas. Furthermore, no double-blind study has shown that people can tell whether they've eaten MSG -- even people who claim to be sensitive to it can't tell!
Given this, I tend to believe that other additives in cheap Chinese food, and cheap processed food, are the source of "MSG reactions". But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
JS
12:10 pm
New user here. Thanks JS for this tidbit on labeling! I plan to order this product from LifeSource. Their product seem to not contain hidden ingredients (so far). They used stevia so I don't know how good or bad it is. Here's the link: http://www.lifesource4life.com/protein.html#supplement
It's probably fine -- but I don't like their baloney about "dead proteins" and how they're hard to digest. Of course they're dead...they're a powder in a jug! And I see no evidence that pasteurization denatures proteins in a way that makes us not digest them.
Note that it's fortified with L-glutamine, which isn't the same thing as "glutamine peptides", and should be fine (though I'm not sure why you need it, as whey is naturally high in glutamine).
That said, their price isn't ridiculous, and they do carry an unflavored version...but if I'm not getting grass-fed dairy cows I'll just go for the NOW stuff.
Also note that pure, non-"fortified" whey protein doesn't taste bad at all! The reason companies need to flavor it is to cover up adulterants.
JS
8:34 am
Now's Whey isn't that bad. I'm thinking of giving it a try. Thanks JS!
2:44 pm
April 26, 2012
![sp_UserOfflineSmall](http://www.gnolls.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/default/images/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png)
J. Stanton said:
Also note that pure, non-"fortified" whey protein doesn't taste bad at all! The reason companies need to flavor it is to cover up adulterants.
JS
JS, I was thinking about our conversation on the other thread. I wonder if the whey I had used before caused me problems mostly because it was a flavored variety. I may try the NOW product and see how it works for me.
Most Users Ever Online: 183
Currently Online:
8 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1768
Members: 5404
Moderators: 0
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 2
Topics: 250
Posts: 7106
Newest Members:
Grigoreed, Grigorawr, Grigorago, Grigorlvv, SadyeDog, GrigorarzAdministrators: J. Stanton: 2045