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When Satiety Fails: Why Are We Hungry? Part IV
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September 12, 2011
8:27 am
Howard
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Still haven't found "the answer." I lost 100 lbs on a low-carb diet in 1999 (actually 130, but re-gained 30). Having low-fat-dieted myself all the way to 350 lbs, losing that much and keeping most of it off for a dozen years has been relatively easy. What has *not* been easy is getting rid of the remaining 50+ lbs I need to lose (for several reasons, including Obstructive Sleep Apnea). I can struggle my way down to around 240, and then the weight seems to just re-attach itself despite my almost religious avoidance of carbohydrate. I'm down close to eating only meat (and some supplements, mostly minerals, but including Vitamin C, D, & K), yet the weight will not budge below 240.

I keep reading all of this talk about leptin, and impaired metabolism of former fatties. That's all good information, but what I'm looking for is HOW DO I FIX IT?

September 12, 2011
9:35 am
Stephen Brand, CPT,
Guest

Howard, I appreciate your comment as I am having a similar experience. Can I have your contact information? I have as of yet to find a solution. I need to lose an additional 30 (maybe even 40) pounds to achieve "ideal" weight and it seems that no matter what I try the weight will not budge!

September 12, 2011
4:27 pm
Stan (Heretic) Blesz
Guest

Fascinating article! (found it through Peter's blog). I have to add a comment from a different angle: our ability to oxidize stored and dietary fat is limited not only for people with metabolic syndrome but for everyone - except those limits are vastly different! Chris Masterjohn posted a very interesting article touching this aspect (read also my comment there underneath). One of the limiting factors seems to be the cellular and immune system's ability to handle metabolic byproducts, involving glutathione.

An upper limit on fat on a high animal fat LC diet (like the one I am on since 1999) could be an important factor preventing some people from effectively using such a diet for healing themselves. For most people such limit is well below satiety threshold, that is you would first stop eating fat (i.e. try overeating butter!) before you manage to overeat it, but for some this limit is so small (initially) that overeating may happen.

It would be very interesting and useful (if you have means) conduct more thorough study on what that limit exactly is for different groups of patients and what is a typical time-frame for the limit to increase. For example in my case it was 2 months (I was 43 at the time with some metabolic syndrome). I knew of people (very rarely) who had to abandon a high fat diet after several months to a couple of years due to that effect.

Regards,
Stan (Heretic)

September 12, 2011
10:41 pm
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Forum Posts: 2045
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February 22, 2010
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Howard, Stephen:

This series isn't complete yet. After I define and explain all of the hunger motivations, the Big Picture should allow us to start drawing some useful conclusions.

One thing to keep in mind is that hunger is multifactorial.  Your low-carb eating has most likely addressed the satiety/energy storage issue, and now you're running into a different limiting factor caused by something else.  But without knowing your current diet and eating habits, I can't possibly make any suggestions.

Stan:

The dysfunction discussed here (and in Rogge et.al.) is a defect in the carnitine shuttle that decreases the effective "bandwidth" available for oxidizing long-chain fats (including palmitic acid) in the mitochondria.  This would cause the "overload" referred to in Masterjohn's article to occur more quickly and at a lower threshold.

So it appears that the two mechanisms are complementary.  I'd seen the article but hadn't related it to this one...thanks for pointing that out!

As far as studies, I'm not involved in academia and am in no position to conduct a formal study.  I'm happy to accumulate and present others' experiences, though!

JS

September 13, 2011
9:17 am
Vad gör oss feta? &l
Guest

[...] Debattens vågor fortsätter att gå höga om vad som egentligen gör oss feta (typ debatten mellan Taubes och Guyenet) och flera kunniga personer har kommit med intressanta inlägg. Ett av de senaste, av J Stanton på gnolls.org, är mycket intressant: When Satiety Fails: Why Are We Hungry? Part IV. [...]

September 14, 2011
6:13 am
Cubbie's Low/No
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[...] Re: Cubbie's Low/No Carb Log Referenced by Peter at hyperlipid and an excellenbt read. It plays into all the recent controversy... When Satiety Fails: Why Are We Hungry? Part IV - GNOLLS.ORG [...]

September 24, 2011
6:51 pm
Perfect Health Diet
Guest

[...] steps forward in the obesity discussion: Peter at Hyperlipid is following up on JS Stanton’s lead regarding mitochondrial dysfunction in obesity. CarbSane chips in with evidence for metabolic [...]

October 8, 2011
6:19 pm
Perfect Health Diet
Guest

[...] Part VI which explains key concepts relating to food reward, and has links to Parts I through V. Part IV was my [...]

October 19, 2011
2:45 pm
Fat Cells, Your Diet
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[...] When Satiety Fails: Why Are We Hungry? Part IV [...]

December 2, 2011
9:00 am
Georgas George
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Hello form Greece.

Excelent and full digestible article.

Thank your brain cells for exchanging glucose to usefull thoughts.

December 5, 2011
5:38 pm
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First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2045
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
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George:

Thank you! It's always good to hear that I've succesfully communicated to my readers.

I'm sure ketones were involved, too.

JS

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