9:18 pm
I just posted this article on my FB page and was met with this response and was hoping to get your response to this. I am fairly new to the Paleo lifestyle after being a vegan/raw vegan for 6 years and finally learning and understanding the unpleasant consequences of my ex-vegan lifestyle as I reap the health benefits of a Paleo one. Here is the comment he left... "Many people, especially the elderly, no longer have sufficient amounts of hydrochloric acid to digest meat well or quickly...nor do many folks, regardless of age, consume enough fiber to provide the bulk to move meat through the system and eliminate it, therefore it tends to remain in the body for extended periods which is not good for it. When you add to this that most cattle are given hormones and antibiotics and are exposed to pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, and other toxic chemicals in water and feed, and that producing one pound of red meat requires hundreds of the amounts of water that is required to grow bushels of grain, etc....for some folks eating red, and even other forms of meat, are either not something they can either financially afford, goes against their value system, or isn't beneficial to their health. To each their own!"
1:25 am
June 5, 2011
J will nail this one to the wall, but my little contribution focusses around a healthy gut.
Once you've moved away from foods that actively damage the gut, mechanically, or by biotic imbalance, your gut and stomach work together to digest food - that sounds obvious, but most people are already in a state where this is not actually happening (properly).
Paleo eating resets the balance. Stomach acid levels will rebalance to break down meat, the gut in prime order to absorb plant foods. People new to paleo find it useful to take acid supplements and take probiotic supplements; some, probiotic dairy and apple cider vinegar, which worked out well for me very quickly indeed, even as a lifelong gastric reflux sufferer. Now off all medication!
Eating meat and fish, along with leafy greens; that's enough. That "just works". Simple, eh?
Another point I'd like to make about combinations of food is: what grows together goes together.
With global food supplies and continually available foods, we have lost the notion of local and seasonal eating. Seasonal foods go together without you having to even think about it and will be wholly nutritious. I am also convinced that eating locally produced food will keep you more in step with the needs of your ethnicity, local adaptions to food sources that have happened over the last several thousand years.
Eating food that humans have evolved to eat is a no-brainer ... eating that way will not have bad side-effects.
Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
2:37 pm
You mention that the gut flora sometimes produce "waste products that we can absorb," and then proceed to use words like 'rot' and 'fart' to put people off vegetables. How, then, do we get the bacteria to produce those waste products, which include butyric and lactic acids and vitamin K? These are hardly things to be scoffed at as "bacteria poop," and are essential to good health, like a well-balanced gut flora itself.
The important distinction between the types of bacteria in the gut wasn't made, nor was there mention of the uniqueness of each person's gut flora and how the wrong diet or other factors (like antibiotics) can throw it completely out of whack. If you learnt what foods pathogens hate and beneficial bacteria love, you wouldn't be stuffing yourself with red meat and avoiding vegetables. You'd probably avoid sugars and starches and eat non-starchy vegetables and good quality proteins that don't produce a crap-load of gut-busting ammonia.
4:10 pm
February 22, 2010
figgypiggy:
The main thing to remember is that not a single one of those confident-sounding statements have any support from science or the facts! They're all baloney, and a confident delivery won't change that.
"Many people, especially the elderly, no longer have sufficient amounts of hydrochloric acid to digest meat well or quickly"
That's a completely false statement, unsupported by any science (ask for a citation — they won't have one), or by any evidence whatsoever. Try the experiment from the article: "Eat a steak and some whole corn kernels, and see what comes out the other end. It won't be the steak."
That being said, some people do end up with a temporary insufficiency of HCl. Why? A normally-functioning digestive system secretes more HCl when we eat meat — but because so many people today eat a low-protein diet of highly processed "food" mostly composed of simple sugars, simple starches, and oils (which do not require HCl to break down), some of them can temporarily experience a bit of stomach upset if they switch abruptly to eating healthy amounts of meat.
(These people often also have GERD, which is usually caused by such a diet — and which resolves itself upon switching to an evolutionarily appropriate diet of meat, vegetables, and other unprocessed foods. See Paul's example above.)
Solution: as Paul pointed out, acid supplementation will get anyone with a problem over the hump. A shotglass of vinegar is often sufficient. Betaine HCl supplements are great if you can't bring a bottle of vinegar with you. And as Paul found, you won't need to do this for very long, because we've been eating meat for at least 3.4 million years and our bodies are well-adapted to consume it.
"nor do many folks, regardless of age, consume enough fiber to provide the bulk to move meat through the system and eliminate it"
More unsupported bunk. Insoluble fiber is not necessary to move anything through your system and eliminate it: peristalsis does a fine job by itself. In fact, the only controlled study ever done on insoluble fiber (the DART trial) showed a 20% increase in death rate from cereal fiber supplementation! (Reference.)
(An aside: note how a 20% increase in a controlled trial is called "not significant" when it contradicts the established wisdom...but when self-reported observational data already proven to be bunk is juggled to produce a theoretical 12% increase that supports conventional wisdom, it's trumpeted all over the world.)
EDIT TO ADD: Also note how the writer sneaked in the incorrect assumption that meat is ever "eliminated". As the article explains, meat is completely digested by enzymes and absorbed in the small intestine, leaving nothing to "eliminate".
"therefore it [meat] tends to remain in the body for extended periods which is not good for it."
GI transit time is well-known and well-measured. The article conclusively debunked this statement (reference). Ignoring evidence and confidently stating the opposite isn't an argument.
"When you add to this that most cattle are given hormones and antibiotics and are exposed to pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, and other toxic chemicals in water and feed"
Why are they exposed to all these toxins? Because they're eating the same corn and soybeans the vegetarians tell us we should be eating! Epic fail.
Industrial agriculture is an environmental disaster whether the end result is fed to cattle or to people. Cattle should be eating grass, and we should be buying meat from cattle that eat grass. Grass-fed cattle don't require any of these toxic chemicals to survive, because they're eating their own evolutionarily appropriate diet.
"producing one pound of red meat requires hundreds of the amounts of water that is required to grow bushels of grain"
Another bunk claim, based on the idea that even the worst industrial feedlot beef is fed on corn and soy its entire life. In reality, cattle die if you feed them on grains for more than a few months — it's called "finishing". They grow up on pasture. And as I said above, the paleo community buys and supports grass-fed beef, which has negative carbon impact if managed correctly!
That's right, negative carbon impact. Well-managed grazing fixes carbon. What vegetarians call "waste", farmers call fertilizer: nitrogen from urine, mulch from feces. Otherwise the Serengeti and the Great Plains would have blown away into dust millions of years ago from the tens of millions of wildebeest and bison that grazed there. (In the case of the Serengeti, they still do.)
Animals are a necessary part of the circle of life. Sterilizing the land with Roundup, pumping it full of ammonium nitrate, and shipping the harvest to a city where they're turned into human feces and flushed into the nearest body of water isn't sustainable in any sense. Only grazing animals can return their "waste" to the soil and keep it healthy.
JS
4:21 pm
February 22, 2010
Javizy:
I already said in the article "Before we go any farther, I am not arguing that we should never eat vegetables: I’m just busting a silly myth." If I tried to get into the topic of colon health and gut flora, this article would have turned into a book!
"good quality proteins that don't produce a crap-load of gut-busting ammonia"
Animal proteins are the highest quality proteins: in fact, egg protein is the standard by which protein quality is measured!
Besides, all protein is converted to ammonia: the problem is when the body's ability to turn ammonia into urea is saturated. This is more likely to happen if we eat a lot of poor-quality, incomplete protein (e.g. grain proteins)...it's difficult to eat enough lean meat to cause such problems. Just try choking down a pound and a half of boneless/skinless chicken breast without dousing it in fat and you'll see what I mean.
JS
4:47 pm
June 5, 2011
I don't mean to hijack this discussion towards gastric derangement, but gastric reflux in earlier life, even controlled by PPIs will often lead to something more sinister, like Barrett's Oesophagus in later life unless a radical decision is made at the right time.
All humans are adversely affected by foods which damage the gut. Some, more than others, and that is not a cop-out. Some can tolerate it for longer. Tolerance is not a good state. Eating real, natural, seasonal and local food which is appropriate for humans in their own environment is right - it is that simple.
Evolution as the foundation and more recent adaption for the fine detail.
Back to the gut - I am very sure that a healthy gut is quite probably the most important part of our internals. Sure, all our organs must be working right, but some can take more work, punishment and downright abuse than others ... ask your liver after a night on the booze; the gut can be seriously damaged very quickly and for quite a term with little more than a small amount of grain. Conversely, a healthy gut, strong in probiotics will happily work through no end of plant matter for you.
That's the joy of being a human, an omnivore, and really ... only possible through ancestral eating.
Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
7:51 am
What are your thoughts . . . what if you knew for sure a person had and was doing everything just right in eating . .. and yet still couldn't digest the healthy fats - - - just kept putting on weight even if they ignored the immediate weight gain as the body is/was adjusting? I've been on a 2-year journey to fine tune everything I was eating and I eat so clean and healthy - yet it's been 2 months and I still can't digest, absorb, etc the healthy fats - it goes to fat storage. I've taken everything I can in supplements to aid in digestion - especially the fats. Every medical person - all alternative, can't seem to give me any answer - all vague. Maybe it's just damage that's been done from the past - but I'd at least like to know 'where that damage is and why' . . . If I go fat free, I do loose fat and gain muscle mass, but as we know - that means tons of cooked vegetables for me and then that causes other issues - the gas, digestive discomfort all the time and I still eat lean meat. I have read it can take from 1 - 2 years to change over from being a sugar burner to a fat burner and maybe I'm in that stage and need to be patient with the added weight. Though I don't it's normal to keep putting on weight. But again, I would like to know 'where' the issue is as I'm taking all the correct digestive aids for helping fat digestion.
Any thoughts?
3:01 pm
February 22, 2010
Jules:
Your problem isn't fat digestion or absorption unless you have steatorrhea (fatty stool): you may see oil in the toilet when you poop, it'll smell terrible, and you'll probably have to make frequent bathroom runs. You may even experience some degree of anal leakage. If steatorrhea is your problem, you may well have some sort of cirrhosis (including PBC) or other liver injury, and you need to see a medical professional about that.
If not, you probably have a metabolic issue. Post a question in the Talk forum if you want to talk about it: include detailed sample daily menus (including what sort of fats you're consuming) and how they affect your weight and energy levels.
JS
10:59 am
It is funny how most of you are justifying your actions as if to make your guilt subside. Do as what feels like nature's intent for you, sounds like you are recruiting to your cults. Some of the indirect aggression on here is draining & immaturely whiny. The importance of what we eat is so ego driven, evident in mass "human" consumption. To get that much pleasure or excitement from food, now that is depressing.
Inevitably all will be in place soon enough.. Peace
7:12 pm
February 22, 2010
Aky:
"To get that much pleasure or excitement from food, now that is depressing."
I disagree! Life's purpose is to get food so it can keep on living -- and to reproduce if it gets enough extra. Eating should be a joyous occasion, because it allows life to continue. See: Live Now, Live Later.
JS
10:42 pm
Exactly, "eat to keep living" not "life's purpose". Maybe it is to you & many others, do as you may, that is my point. Besides in today's world most people are not living because of overindulgence & in most cases clogging their lives short. Not that that is a problem I guess they ate their share of the earth. Do not get me wrong when I am feeding my body just enough to function properly it is a joyous occasion -a celebration of life if you may- among family & friends. I already strongly do believe that "living now" will extend the health of your life but food is not the only factor. It might be the most important source of nutritional energy for the physical body but can turn poison if that vessel is corrupt. And still in my voice I do not think the main focus of the human race should be food.
All the best on your journey..
10:16 pm
It is clear you have an anti "vegan" or vegetarian agenda.Your work seems biased & non subjective. I like to consider all the possibilities. Why don't you consider these "FACTS" and what it may indicate in respect to human eating habits? Note I say what it may indicate, not what it means.
11:22 pm
“You watch the people feed tons and tons of grain to the animals, then they kill the animals and eat the animals. Why don’t they just eat the grain and let the animals live? It don’t make sense. Why are they eating the animals? They eat flesh and blood, then they go to church and talk about ‘thou shalt not kill.’ And they kill every day with every breath they take.” – Charles Manson
(Link to video here - JS)
11:27 pm
February 22, 2010
Aky:
Food isn't my main focus in life…in fact, eating paleo has allowed me to spend much less of my time thinking about food! I eat fewer meals (though larger ones) — and I don't spend nearly as much time being hungry and trying to figure out the logistics of shoving calories in my mouth every few hours so my brain doesn't shut down.
Thus, I'm able to spend more energy making sure that when I do eat, it's a joyous and mindful experience — not just a necessary inconvenience.
I wish you good roads on your own journey.
s3van:
I'm not anti-vegan or anti-vegetarian — I'm anti-baloney. (I was vegetarian once.) There are coherent reasons to be veg*an, but "meat rots in your colon" isn't one of them.
As far as those "facts", they're baloney too. First, we don't need big teeth or claws, because we have opposable thumbs and sharp rocks, which are even better…and as I discuss in this series of articles, we have evidence that our ancestors used them to deflesh bones starting 3.4 million years ago. Next, the comments about jaw morphology and motion are simply wrong. I could go on…and I probably should someday, because that list (or variants thereof) is so widespread.
fifkid:
That's a great speech, and deserves watching.
Cass:
I wouldn't recommend sourcing your ethics from Charles Manson. His moral compass doesn't exactly point north.
"Why don’t they just eat the grain and let the animals live?" Because the grain isn't any better for us than it is for the cattle! Grains are grass seeds — and they're for birds and rodents, not humans or cattle.
Furthermore, clearing land for crops kills all the wildlife that lived there. We don't see the suffering as the foxes and coyotes and birds and bees and squirrels and mice and everything else that once lived there starves to death or is plowed under in order to make room for another quarter-section of GMO soybeans…
…but it's still there. Eating plants doesn't stop death and suffering. It just moves it to somewhere we can't see what we've done.
JS
6:54 pm
Wow! what a great newsletter! Sign me up; I and my gut thank you. JL
4:07 am
Hey, buddy!
Lots of comments you get here.
Please next time do not try to cheat people. I have carefully read your posted article, and nowhere did you put data on digestibility percentage of food, including meat, nor did you mention words like putrefaction, ptomains, cadaver decay byproducts. I am an omnivore, but this is an article quite similar to the vegetarian that are all over the Internet. What you wrote here, just mirrors the extreme and non-scientific vegetarian fundamentalists.
Let's all be ignorant, and try to dig a hole as big as our brains are small. We should all be on opposite science sides. The time we live in allows it.
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