2:18 am
February 22, 2010
Andrea:
97.5% of people in the United States report themselves as meat-eaters.
Of the remaining 2.5% who claim to be vegetarians, nearly 2/3 (214/334, or 64%) ate a significant quantity of meat on at least one of the two days for which their dietary intake was surveyed! (Source.) Also see this full-length article on the subject.
Furthermore, there are no known vegetarian ancestral cultures -- even agriculturalists greatly prize meat. Vegetarianism is a religious belief, and it first appears in the historical record in Greece and India around 600 BC.
It appears that human instinct is quite clear on the subject of meat-eating.
The rest of your assertions are false, too. Chimpanzees and bonobos regularly hunt and kill monkeys. The first stone tools made by hominids, dating from roughly 2.5 million years ago, were used to deflesh animal carcasses.
In order to find hominids that ate only fruit, you'll have to go back about 10 million years, into the Miocene. If you're happy being a small, quadrupedal, tree-dwelling proto-ape with a 250cc brain, go right ahead. I prefer my upright, bipedal gait, my 1300cc brain capable of language and sophisticated tool-making, and my ability to live in places free of malaria, dengue fever, Chagas' disease, leishmaniasis, sleeping sickness, etc.
JS
1:51 pm
[...] claim that all that meat just rots in your gut. (Which, by the way, is 100% scientifically false. Read this.) Who to believe? What to believe? Sift, sift, sift through it all, trying to the truth in the [...]
11:31 pm
[...] much waste anyway. (Contrary to vegan propaganda, if you have a proper amount of stomach acid, you have zero trouble breaking down animal protein–and you tend to use a lot of it, too.) But I’ve also been noshing on my [...]
3:28 am
Had a piece of pork without anything else yesterday and guess what?
I started farting which is a sign of the meat rotting and followed by constipation in the morning.
Carnivores release A LOT more hydrochloric acid than us humans. Get your facts straight.
Our saliva is alkaline while carnivores is acidic.
4:06 am
February 22, 2010
xx67:
My facts are straight.
A dog has a stomach pH of 1-2, rising to 3 with digestion on a raw diet and 6 on a diet of dry dog food (source). (Note that meat increases stomach acidity for both carnivores and omnivores.)
A human has a stomach pH of 1.35-3.5 depending on diet (source)...within the same range as a dog. How about that! Furthermore, we have bile salts for a reason -- they raise the pH of
the acidic chyme released by our stomach, so that it doesn't damage our
intestines.
And unfortunately for the herbivore/carnivore theory, a cow's abomasum (stomach) has a pH of 2 (source). It turns out that digestion works best at low pH no matter what you're digesting.
Next: human saliva has a pH between 6.0 and 7.4 (7.0 being neutral), so if anything, it's a very weak acid on average. And guess what? Dog saliva is slightly more basic than human saliva! (source)
Note to my readers: xx67's "facts" probably came from one of those pieces of vegetarian propaganda which purport to be a carnivore/herbivore comparison. As I've just shown, they're complete bunk.
JS
7:35 am
What does a carnivore produces "A LOT" more hydrochloric acid mean? It means that we don't produce "enough" of it for digesting meat. any nursing student knows this.
"human saliva has a pH between 6.0 and 7.4 (7.0 being neutral), so if anything, it's a very weak acid on average."
saliva PH is based on a persons diet, meat is high in amino "acids" and fatty "acids" which increases acidity of saliva and plasma. last time I checked Cancer grows in an acidic environment. There is a big difference of 400 times between PH from 6 to 2, not really acidic.
Meat contains huge amounts of excess very long chain fatty acids that leads the body in storing these excess amounts of VLCF acids in the adrenal glands and brain. alzheimer's? adrenal shock?
we didn't share a common ancestor with the apes because sperm and egg DNA changes all the times, the apes would of also evolved. we are our own specie. not herbivores, not omnivores, not carnivores, but plain and simple frugivorous apes that need huge amounts of Vitamin D to process all the fructose in fruit.
meat eating is culture based, not gene based. we will never evolve into omnivores because true omnivores like bears and dogs manufacture huge amounts of Vitamin C to prevent atherosclerosis and Cancer.
meat is for surviving in a northern atmosphere.
6:10 pm
The crazy is strong with this one. Don't feed the troll stanton, it has spent years on a frugivorious diet. This has had the unfortunate side effect of warping its brain back to the 250cc proto-ape form, thus rendering it incompatible with rational thought. Give it a banana and tell it to piss off back to the Miocene.
7:29 pm
February 22, 2010
xx67:
pH measurement is straightforward, grade-school science. If you choose to ignore that, you'll find that rational people choose to ignore you.
And if you choose to investigate blood pH, you'll find that it's very tightly regulated by the body (between 7.39 and 7.41)...so claims relating to "acidifying the blood", including cancer and bone loss, are also bunk. The body maintains blood pH primarily via CO2<->carbonic acid. (See this article for a long biochemistry excursion, and this article for more on the bicarbonate buffering system.)
Furthermore, assertions like "we didn't share a common ancestor with the apes" disqualify the speaker from any rational conversation.
It may surprise you to learn that I don't hate you, and I don't hate vegetarians. (I was one myself, once.) What I do have is a very low tolerance for baloney. If you ever decide you want to abandon pseudoscience, you're welcome here. And if you decide to eat the diet of anatomically modern humans instead of Miocene proto-chimps, you'll most likely find yourself happier, healthier, and less compelled to proselytize.
Rob:
I don't respond because it will convince xx67: I respond for the thousands of readers who might otherwise be swayed by false claims.
JS
9:58 am
J Stanton:
I am all for learning and even experimenting on myself with food. Meat from terrestrial animals does rot in my intestines because it gives me major gas an hour after and gives me constipation the morning after. Just eating meat, nothing else and I will not add butter to the meat so it can lubricate my intestines. I will try fish in a couple days and report back.
I wouldn't make such a big fuss if I didn't become constipated from eating meat.
I see humans as being more omnivores in the sense of fish and fruit. Fresh water fish we can catch with our own bare hands.
I know that DHA/EPA fatty acids made our brains big however I don't agree with the notion of just because we are omnivores we can digest all types of meat.
6:21 pm
I agree with this article and great post. Within the past few months I switched to a primal/paleo diet and feel great. When I do eat veggies to get my carb intake in which is around 80-100 a day (strength athlete) I feel bloated which I hate and this is from 2 cups of broccoli and 3 oz of spinach. To get that many carbs from greens is crazy and I also believe that our ancestors would not spend the day gathering tons of green veggies.
From an strength athletes standpoint what do you recommend for carbs then. Sweet potatoes and some fruit with a few greens I guess?
4:55 pm
February 22, 2010
xx67:
Gas from red meat/pork is an interesting issue, and one I haven't heard of before. But there are billions of people in the world and we're all different!
I'm obviously speculating here -- but it may be that your stomach is insufficiently acidic, especially after many years of eating vegetarian. This would mean that the meat isn't being fully broken down, and some amount of it is not being absorbed. Taking HCl supplements (hydrochloric acid) with meat will tell you if this were causing your problem. Meat tenderizer (papain) can also be helpful...but I'd try the HCl first.
However, a seafood-only approach to paleo is perfectly valid: mussels, for instance, are absolutely packed with nutrients. The only real problems I see are that seafood tends to be much more expensive than land animals, and you have to be careful of methylmercury content (eating lots of tuna and shark, for instance, is not the best idea)...but I can't argue against a Pacific Island-styled diet of fish, coconut products, vegetables, and "safe starches" (taro, sago, tapioca, white rice, root starches). If that works for you, wonderful!
Another note: while I love butter and won't discourage its use, coconut oil is both absorbed more easily in the intestine and burned more readily for energy -- so some people transitioning to a higher-fat diet find the transition is easier with coconut oil. (I buy it by the gallon, from here.)
It often takes time for one's body to adapt to changes in diet. Let us know what you find out, particularly with HCl supplements!
kbags:
I responded to this in your other comment, but to clarify: I have good experiences with anything listed by the Jaminets as a "safe starch". Sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, taro, sago, tapioca, white rice...
My own take on vegetables is that they're for nutrients (vitamins, minerals, etc.), not calories. If my body needs something in mixed greens, cabbage, carrots, or whatever, it'll let me know by generating a craving. Some days I'll eat half a pound of greens, and some days I won't want any at all.
I agree that ancestral humans wouldn't have sought them for calories...but many ancestral cultures greatly prize certain plants, usually because they contain nutrients otherwise lacking in their diet.
JS
2:48 pm
Thanks. A cow once told me : "Don't worry (about eating our meat); what matters is that we'll have had a good life". I learnt later how right she was, and many times I wished I was a cow in that field. Apart from that, never met any vegan who ever actually talked to a cow (or another animal for that matter), let alone having a cow talk to it. Only one possible conclusion : these people don't know what they are talking about. Compassion my arse : they don't know what it means either. The only thing they see or talk to is their own little selves and they don't even realise it (which makes it a lot worse).
There's got to be some vegans who do know, mind - but they ain't the nasty soul-eating breed who tries to brainwash others. Eating meat or eating souls, make your choice...
Rob (Jan. 29th) gave me and my dog a good honest laugh - nothing like it to settle upset guts. As for the rest, all that pickaninny about pH and the rest, isn't it so so sad that so many ppl don't know how to listen to their own bodies. There goes diversity, in comes pills diet.
3:27 pm
June 5, 2011
Haha! You, too? I walk a lot and mostly around the fields and hills within a few miles of my house which is farming country. I always take time to stop and look at the animals, saying hello, perhaps asking how it's going ... folks would think I'm nuts, but I see it more that I am part of my habitat - these animals are, too, and in the end I'm no better than them ... just further up the food chain. It's polite.
Many of our animals are breeders. The herd that graze up to our land boundary are breeders and it's good to see the males for one and two years, then perhaps one particular bull stay on for a few more years and take over. I grew very fond of one this summer - I would take a G&T out to the back fence and look over the fields; he'd come trotting straight over most days and over to wherever I happened to approach their fields from other approaches while out walking.
I hope to see him again next summer ...
Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
9:32 am
3/5/2012 on yahoo is an article by a college trained nutritionist who thinks she is a know-it-all. she says the paleo diet is dangerous, for among other reasons, no cow milk...as if we were calves meant to drink cow milk. i responded and added in your website address. better to treat the other commentors to the facts than have them continue thinking this "nutritionist" has the facts, when she clearly has been brainwashed by the college she attended.
2:29 pm
February 22, 2010
dana:
"Paleo" will continue to be fought against from all quarters, partially due to ignorance and partially due to a profit agenda. See my article "You Are A Radical, And So Am I."
Thanks for helping spread the word! We can't save the world...all we can do is save ourselves, and perhaps, a few others who are willing to question orthodoxy. To do this, we need to keep putting good information out there so we're not lost in the noise.
JS
9:10 am
thanks for the response and the infoon another article toread. i sure wish i would all this science presented in the above format much earlier in my life. i started as a vegetarian in my teens, (though my parents hunted, fished and raised livestock in our "backyard"). i then became a veganand then a fruitarian. i then had a heart attack. i was 38. it was 20 years ago. my doctor put me on meat immediatly. a lack of blood calcium or protein, i think she said...it has been a while. i was still eating a varied diet..bread, all whole grain, i made it myself. very "healthy" and all the usual foods, though i do not eat foods i have not raised or fished, or my husband has hunted. but the breads and the other carbs have made me quite heavy. 9add in,i also retired from drought tolerant landscape designer career, got married at age 50 and had menopause all within 6 months of each other.much less exercise and too much bread) i started reading the suzanne somers books, also loaded with science and now have come to just eating what we ate before the domestication of animals and the agrarian revolution. the weight is falling off, i feel great!, and i feel no "deprivation" from no longer have bread cheese, my favorite raw milk, or anything else that is not natural for humans to eat. i have seen some paelo websites that are pushing items of food that i know just cannot be right. having worked with plants all my life, i am quite aware of the species that have been hybridized to make the current models...just take corn. it looks nothing like it did in it's original state, add in the fact that most people eat the gmo version. i will check out the link to the other article. i do not remember how i found this website, maybe through naturalnews.com, but i am quite appreciative that you and it exist to educate us.
9:25 am
i just read the article you are a radical and so am i. boy, am i grateful for my family. my parents hunted and fished and we grew our fruits vegetables and nuts. we never used chemical fetilizers or persticides. we has some that raised grassfed beef in the midwest, some who raised pigs, fruit and wheat. some who raised chickens and rabbits and grapes and vegetables. the neighbors even then thought we were "out there". this is the late fifties and early 60's in to the early 70's (my childhood). they did all this long before me and long after i left home at age 18. i am educating my husband on the evils of monsanto and corporate farming. he was quite ignorant on the money aspect. monsanto and it's cozy relationship with the fda is disgusting. he is 21 years younger than me and ate what i call crap all his childhood and until i met him. he was in and out of hospitals for diet related illnesses. a life made up of eating processed food was killing him. we have been married justover 7 years and he says he feels better and is healthier than he has been his whole life. he does hunt and fish for wild animals. that at least his parents got right. keep up the good work. pity not every one has not ead you articles. i will share with all i communicate with. thanks!
10:30 pm
February 22, 2010
dana:
I wish I had learned all this earlier in my life, too! Well, there are a lot of things I wish I knew when I was younger.
I'm glad you're experiencing the same thing so many others report: they feel healthy without feeling hungry or deprived of delicious foods. We have our tastes and desires for a reason, and it's not to tempt us or make us fat, it's to keep us alive...so if we can figure out what foods are natural and appropriate for us to eat, we should also find that they're delicious and satisfying!
You've led a unique and interesting life, and I'm glad your path has led you here. Thank you for sharing!
JS
1:04 am
The law of populations is that the population expands to fit the available food supply (read available calories). Witness the Irish and the potato famine. Before potatoes were introduced to Ireland, barley and rye were the principal source of calories. Cultivation of potatoes increased Irish agricultures production of calories 4x. So when the potato blight took out the potato calories, 3/4 of the Irish population either had to emmigrant or starve to death given that the British overlords wouldn't import food to feed them and took most of their animal products (Ireland grows lovely grass for grazing). So sending food to Africa only leads to an expanded population and an even bigger food crisis and greater problems of malnutrition. War is how human populations collapse when available resources are insufficient (ie. carrying capacity is exceeded). The collapse of GMO agribusiness is coming. Already a Purdue scientist has identified a new virus that exploits the fact the glysophate chelates manganese (Mn). Mn is critical to plant immune systems. There have already been cases of the virus wiping out whole soybean fields. Should it wipe out the entire GMO soy crop in the USA, Brazil,Argentina, etc, there could be a large scale Ireland.
8:24 pm
February 22, 2010
Kenneth:
That's pretty much the Jared Diamond argument, in "Collapse": war throughout history has been primarily resource-driven.
It wouldn't surprise me if a bacterium or virus took advantage of the millions of acres of GMO monoculture currently spread around the globe. All we have to do is look at the current antibiotic situation to see what is likely to happen. Yet another reason to eat a wide variety of locally produced foods -- by doing so, we're supporting a food supply robust against pathogenic attack and consequent famine.
JS
Most Users Ever Online: 230
Currently Online:
19 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1770
Members: 10117
Moderators: 0
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 2
Topics: 250
Posts: 7108
Newest Members:
Jackpot winner of the day pestorol.blogspot.com 7B, You received free spins aktukurstut.blogspot.com x7, You are the winner rewdoker.blogspot.com Es, You have won rewdoker.blogspot.com ma, You received free spins koroprosik.blogspot.com Gi, You are the winner aktukurstut.blogspot.com esAdministrators: J. Stanton: 2045