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9:37 am
Quote[...] Better health: It’s less complicated than you think Wasting time is not a waste Kitchen essentials Yoga for the type-A Chorizo mini-meatloaves / Baked bimbimbap / GOBlin deviled eggs 10 [...]
12:20 pm
I've lost 116lbs, sorted PCOS, Insulin Resistance, Migrains, heartburn and to a great extent athritus, I have energy, and I can walk again.
I find it a wonder that when you tell someone that bread, rice, pasta and potatoes need to be eliminated to a great extent to get these results people claim its 'rubbish' and will always have a reason to justify why they are right. Yet I am proof.
How many people would rather take pills then give up bread, just because they are so mindwashed into believing that less fat = less weight, if it worked why are we sliding into obesity, why is diabetes on the rise?
Yet, I'm living proof it works. What more do you need? I have friends who yo-yo diet and are getting fatter each year. I am getting thinner and healthier,,I no longer need drugs from my dr.
Look at yourself, modern diets and nutrition are not working. Give it up, and see what happens. You might be surprised.
You can't judge unless you've tried.
1:48 pm
I was skeptical of paleo/LC at first. I didn't have JulieGeorgiana as an existence proof, but even if I did that would only have one data point. It takes a lot of evidence to overcome the conventional wisdom. For 50+ years I've been subjected to the "artery-clogging saturated fat" and "heart-healthy whole grain" messages on an almost daily basis. It seemed inconceivable to me that there wasn't a preponderance of evidence behind them. Thanks to the persistence of J and others I finally came around.
2:13 pm
Asclepius,
I'm not sure I agree with your first point here. Human health and fitness is NOT balanced on a pin head. We are adaptive and as such health and fitness is arguably a moving target.. There is no optimal diet (or exercise); we live in a dynamic environment and have evolved as such.
I must not have been sufficiently clear. I am NOT saying the optimal diet is a very narrow island, one step away from it and you're doomed. I am also NOT saying that the optimal diet, even for a particular individual, is fixed -- clearly, what's optimal changes in response to a variety of parameters. Age is one of the most obvious ones.
What I AM saying is that there's very little dietary advice that is guaranteed to benefit 100% of the human population. Humans are *different*. Humans are very adapatable and have adapted to different environments which again means they are different and may need to eat different things.
I just really don't like the one-size-fits-all approach.
For sure Asians can thrive on a high-carb diet with lots of grain (whilst living in Asia), but what about an Asian that has lived in the US for most of his/her early life? Does your idea hold true then?
shrug. Which idea? My ideas are that humans are different and complex. I believe they hold true 🙂 Are you asking whether Asian genes will be able to overcome the environment? I don't know. It depends. My point is precisely that it depends 🙂
2:19 pm
June 20, 2011
OfflineI love visuals so I thought I'd share:
4:01 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
garymar:
The snowflake analogy has always made me laugh. Sure, they're all unique: but at any distance, they're all just a homogenous white mass.
Jason:
Unfortunately I can't imagine any education they'd receive would be anything but "eat more whole grains". We may actually be in a better situation right now because they've been taught so little that there isn't years of training to be overcome.
Actually it would be fun to design a "nutrition for doctors" course based on ACTUAL BIOCHEMISTRY, instead of dubious epidemiology. That might get us there.
Great to hear from you again!
lynn:
I'm glad you've found a doctor with an open mind. Minds are changed one at a time.
Dave Sill:
I'll work on it...keeping all the social bookmarking stuff up to date is a PITA. Sociable hasn't been updated in quite a while, and I find most of the alternatives intrusive...
Paul:
Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Anastasia:
I see that all the time: pills to counteract the side effects of pills...and with each new drug, the number of possible bad interactions increases geometrically.
And it usually takes decades to develop metabolic syndrome, so nothing is going to cure it in a week.
Asclepius:
Why eat food when you can eat birdseed and buy pills?
It's amazing that no one seems to make the connection that our bodies need all these vitamins because they're supposed to be in food! And if what we're eating requires us to take vitamins, or dump vitamins into it ("fortification"), maybe we're not eating the right food!
Sheesh.
Paul:
My advice fits within functional paleo community standards -- but it's a new presentation of the evidence, from a fresh point of view that resonates deeply within many of us. I'm glad you find it inspiring.
It is important to remember that the way we feel when eating like a predator is how humans are supposed to feel. The jumpy, hungry, distractable, insomniac haze most of us live in is what happens when humans try to live on a diet of birdseed and diesel fuel.
Mike:
Sad but true. See Anastasia's post for a sobering reminder of how little nutrition training doctors actually receive:
http://primalmeded.com/2011/04/06/doctorsandnutrition/
Jan:
It's tough to watch, but you can't help anyone who doesn't want help: see last week's article. I wonder what rationale was given for excluding fruit?
Chris:
I try not to put too much blame on doctors: they've got perhaps a few minutes to look at your chart, ask you questions, and figure out which of a million things could be going wrong. What we need to do is make that situation clear to everyone: you are responsible for your own health.
Timothy:
You're correct. A doctor isn't like a mechanic, where you can just bring your body in
and say "It's making weird noises and pulls to the left, fix it and
give me a rental until it's done."
But we're continually told that we should never do anything without asking our doctor: we shouldn't eat new food, stop eating a food, take a vitamin, stop taking a vitamin, or even exercise without first "consulting a medical professional". Passivity and compliance is encouraged at every turn.
How the hell is it that someone goes home from thyroid removal surgery without a bottle of Synthroid? That's pretty much criminal negligence IMO.
OK, I'm splitting this up into multiple parts. More soon!
7:41 pm
Kaa,
Some things certainly apply to all humans. We all need to breath oxygen and drink water to survive. Is diet really all that different?
As for looking at Asia, the Seven Countries Study showed that carbohydrate consumption in Japan decreased from 78 to 61 percent of calories from 1958 to 1989, while fat rose from 5 percent to 21, and protein from 11 to 16 percent. Basically, more meat, less rice.
During this same time, deaths from stroke dropped from 4.6 per thousand to 0.8, cancer rates dropped slightly from 4.7 to 3.4, and myocardial infarction rates remained about the same. While certainly not proof, it does suggest that Asians benefit from eating more meat and less rice.
8:24 pm
One day, when I'm grown up, I will be able to write just like you JS!
You nailed it.
Link sent to many unique snowflakes.
Jamie
8:34 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
Kaa:
"Eat Like A Predator" is about getting off the SAD (Standard American Diet) and onto healthy, nutrient-dense, evolutionarily appropriate foods.
While nutritional relativism is currently quite fashionable, the fact that certain diets (e.g. Japan, Kitava) are less toxic and evolutionarily discordant than the SAD doesn't make them the optimal human diet. Is lots of rice and a little bit of fish better than soda and deep-fried chicken? Yes. Is it better than bagels with fat-free "cream cheese", 100 Calorie Snack Packs, and venti mocha-toffee frappucinos? Yes.
Is it better than eating like a predator? No.
That being said, there is room for optimization once you're on the plan. Some people have allergies, intolerances, genetic defects, and variations in body chemistry….and, most importantly, differing tastes as a result of our sociocultural context. But there's no subset of humans with the desaturase enzymes to convert n-6 to n-3 fats, or turn 1kg of lean protein into glucose, or manufacture vitamin C de novo. We're less unique than we think.
Evan:
As gnolls.org becomes more and more widely read, it's getting tougher to respond to everyone. I'll do my best, but there will come a time when I just can't do it any more. I ask for your patience and understanding when that occurs.
Jack:
Oh, hell, Jack, you know I don't view functional paleo as a panacea: I view it as a necessary starting point.
I'm going to take you up on that offer someday, as I have occasional business in Nashville!
eddie:
Exactly.
Asclepius:
That's an excellent point, and part of what I was trying to get across. Many of what we call "diseases of civilization" are caused by the diet of civilization, and treating them solely with medication is like taping over the "Check Engine" light.
Franco:
Yes. That's part of what I said earlier: rice is better than bread as far as grains go. "Better" is not "optimal".
JulieGeorgiana:
It's a lot easier to take a pill than to stop doing something we enjoy…even if it's killing us. And we're told every day, with millions of dollars worth of advertisements, that a pill will fix all our problems. Look! Retired people on a beach!
The irony is that I enjoy eating paleo more than I enjoyed eating junk, because it's more satisfying…I'm not left with an empty feeling an hour later.
Dave Sill:
Yes. It's disconcerting to realize that the entire current dietary dogma is based on 1) scientific fraud (Ancel Keys), 2) government policy written by vegetarians and based on scientific fraud (the McGovern committee), and 3) decades of purposely bad epidemiology twisted to support the fraud in order to stay funded.
I'm moderately contrarian by nature, and it still took me quite a while to get here. Hopefully I'm making it easier for others like yourself.
kaa:
"there’s very little dietary advice that is guaranteed to benefit 100% of the human population. Humans are *different*"
Yes, there is, and no, we're not.
We're not different enough for the optimal diet to have changed. Certain groups differ in their tolerance for suboptimal diets — but I'm not interested in what we can tolerate, I'm interested in what's best.
Chris:
I was surprised at the amount of vegetables, fruits, and milk…but then I remembered that chart is by weight, not by calories. I'd like to see it broken down by calories, which would be more honest as far as relative intakes.
Part III coming soon.
9:34 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
John:
Absolutely true. I see no evidence that the Japanese wouldn't benefit from a paleo diet.
Jamie:
I see from your most recent post that you're thinking along similar lines:
http://thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/if-you-dont-value-your-health.html
Common thread: health isn't complicated.
I like to stress that it's only "work" while you're making the transition. Once you've completed the transition, you understand the benefits it brings and participate willingly.
Besides, who doesn't enjoy bacon, eggs, prime rib, baked potatoes, etc.? Functional paleo isn't about taking things away -- it's about replacing them with things that are even better!
JS
1:49 pm
JS,
While nutritional relativism is currently quite fashionable, the fact that certain diets (e.g. Japan, Kitava) are less toxic and evolutionarily discordant than the SAD doesn't make them the optimal human diet. Is lots of rice and a little bit of fish ... better than eating like a predator? No.
I think that's the core of my disagreement. THE optimal diet? One and only? Got any evidence to support this assertion?
It's obvious that there are wrong diets, ones that will kill you sooner rather than later. That necessarily means that there are good diets, ones that will help you stay healthy during a long life. But to claim that there is only one optimal diet and that optimal point is the same for all humans on planet Earth doesn't sound reasonable to me.
I'm much more inclined to a theory that there are -- to borrow an expression from one of paleo bloggers -- islands of healthy eating in the sea of malnutrition. Not one, but multiple islands and not all of them work for all people.
If you want to eat optimally, you need to (1) stop eating junk (we agree here), but then (2) explore some islands and figure out which one works for you -- works in terms of results, taste, practicalities. Different people will end up on different islands and that's perfectly fine.
By the way, the Japan example is {rolls eyes}. The major change in their diet seems to be the increase in fat consumption of which, I bet, the great majority is vegetable oil (oh no, PUFAs!) and comparing mortality rates over 30 years without controlling for advances in medicine and availability of doctors/hospitals/drugs/etc. is quite meaningless.
3:48 pm
June 20, 2011
OfflineJ. Stanton said:
Chris:
I was surprised at the amount of vegetables, fruits, and milk…but then I remembered that chart is by weight, not by calories. I'd like to see it broken down by calories, which would be more honest as far as relative intakes.
Part III coming soon.
Agreed. But since vegetables are definitely not as calorically dense the chart would be ridiculously skewed towards wheat, and anything that is consumed in a liquid medium, in my opinion. Maybe I can find that information somewhere.
4:55 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
Kaa:
I'm not claiming there is a single set of optimal foods that everyone should be eating. But based on what we know about how the body processes nutrients, it's clear that there are ranges and proportions of each that result in optimum human health. The Jaminets' Perfect Health Diet spends a lot of time figuring out what these ranges and proportions are, and I highly recommend their book.
And since Paleolithic humans didn't have access to protein powders, refined oils, or refined flours and sugars, we can reverse-engineer a solid diet based on what proportions of real, whole foods can get us within those ranges, and based on the archaeological evidence we have.
That being said, there are "islands" of reasonably safe yet suboptimal nutrition -- for instance, rigorous avoidance of gluten grains, refined oils (high in n-6 fats), and fructose appears to make high carbohydrate consumption much safer. But again, "better than the SAD" is not the same thing as "optimal". The Japanese smoke much more than Americans, but no one recommends daily smoking as a healthy habit.
Chris:
It's easy to approximately reconstruct that with information from nutritiondata or fitday. And I don't think it skews our consumption towards wheat...wheat is a major constituent of our diet.
Anyone else notice how corn has mysteriously become reclassified as a "vegetable"?
JS
12:21 am
JS,
You say that you enjoy eating paleo because it stops you feeling hungry. This came up last week in the comments too by another user. I have mentioned that being pregnant means upping my carbs as my blood sugar gets too low, and meat cooking is a horrid smell, so rarely eat it now, but I've been low energy, sick, had heartburn and had headaches. Thanks to your threads I suddenly realised I was missing fat, and needed to get it back into my diet.
So I did about 5 days ago, I started eating meat for dinner and try to add more eggs into my week. I thought my pregnancy was making me poorly, but it was too many (low gi) carbs and not enough meat and fat. And i'm eating less and feel much fuller. My headaches, most the heartburn and sickness have gone, and my energy is rising. My husband noticed I can do more the day after I eat a lot of meat. And as you said I'm more satisfied. And my cravings have calmed down a lot (caused by a lack of what my body needed).
So thanks to the gnolls I have to information I needed to make myself better. Keep the posts coming, I have more to learn 🙂
11:26 am
"We're not different enough for the optimal diet to have changed. Certain groups differ in their tolerance for suboptimal diets — but I'm not interested in what we can tolerate, I'm interested in what's best."
JS, that paragraph of yours is another wonder of concision and clarity.
Just sayin'
Juan
8:00 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
JulieGeorgiana:
I'm glad I've been able to help!
Eggs are an incredible source of all sorts of critical nutrients, so I'm glad you're eating them. As you're pregnant, some DHA supplementation will be very helpful, both for the nutrition of your baby and to help avoid post-partum depression. You might consider 0.8-1g/day of DHA if you're not eating any fatty fish (and I know that methylmercury is an issue for the pregnant).
Note that most cheap fish oil is low in DHA compared to EPA...you may have to shop around to find good ones, or use something like Jarrow Max DHA to balance out the ratio. EPA is anti-inflammatory, but the DHA is more important because it's necessary for growing brains and bodies.
Juan:
Writing is communication, whether I'm writing a novel or responding to comments. I'm glad I'm able to get my meaning across to you.
JS
11:12 pm
"Nobody really knows what health is. It's never been defined. There's a million books and articles on how to be healthy and have absolutely no problem not defining it and giving you directions on an unknown destination. No wonder we're lost... Nobody in the history of mankind should ever have correctly been diagnosed with a Lipitor deficiency; it does not exist." --Dr. Ron Rosedale
12:37 am
[...] Better health is less complicated than you think -gnolls.org [...]
1:55 pm
Since changing my eating style, I can't tell you how many times each day I sigh when I hear people talking about things like "needing" that sugary frappa-mocha-garbage each morning or seeing morbidly obese people eating bowls of "low-fat" pasta for lunch. They eat junk, have no energy, and because they have no energy it's even easier to reach for more junk food. In contrast, I felt so alive this morning I sprinted until I was winded while walking to the grocery store to buy wholesome, predatory food. My neighbors no doubt thought I was nuts, but who cares!
I must say, of all the paleo/primal dietary instructions I've read, "Eat like a predator" is by far my favorite. It's straight to the point and entertaining enough to make it memorable. If more people ditched the added sugar and "birdseed" (plus respective oils), they would be healthier and happier.
2:35 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
js290:
That's an interesting way of putting it: we get fat because normal metabolic signals are disrupted in some way.
Beowulf:
Exactly. You shouldn't "need" food, and "I'm starving" is not a literal statement unless you haven't eaten for days.
I'm glad you find ELAP helpful...if it took an entire book to teach us how to eat, the human race would have died out long ago!
JS
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